Silver Lake apartment garden brings COVID-19 relief

When Jamie Renee Williams wanted to learn more about soil and permaculture, she volunteered at several urban farms throughout Los Angeles: Cottonwood Urban Farm in Panorama City, Huarache Farms in Sierra Madre and Farm L.A., located in Elysian Valley. When she wanted to implement what she was learning in the community, she began working with a community-led compost pick-up service to expand its reach. And when the coronavirus outbreak forced her to shelter in place, she transformed a tiny stretch of dirt next to her apartment into an edible garden.

“I thought for many years that it would be amazing to work on restoring it in some way,” Williams, 37, said of the garden in Silver Lake that she planted in March. “I had been reading books on permaculture such as “The One-Straw Revolution: An Introduction to Natural Farming,” and when I started going to a bunch of different farms they were all doing something different. I was afraid of growing food. I have killed plenty of plants. But the pandemic and quarantine pushed me to do it. I figured I have all this time and nothing to lose.”

Before the pandemic, Williams juggled UX design work, volunteering and helping broaden the Compostable pickup service. But with more free time on her hands — and like so many who have struggled with isolation while sheltering in place — the garden offered her an opportunity to navigate her way through the pandemic.

“I felt like I had a partner through this pandemic,” she said. “It’s been really rewarding. I have learned that plants, like people, need to be together in a community.”

For Williams, who will be offering a guided virtual tour of the garden on Thursday as part of this week’s annual LA Design Festival, the garden is “reclaimed space for everyone.”

“Jamie embodies that special something that makes L.A. so interesting,” said festival director Haily Zaki. “She’s a creative multi-hyphenate doing her own unique thing, her way, that kind of cannot be defined in any sort of cut and dry way, kind of like L.A.”

We spoke with Williams about the value of gardening and composting and issues of food waste. She also touches on how gardening, and being outdoors, has helped her to better understand the world in the wake of the killing of George Floyd in May.

 Jamie Williams searches for bush beans in her tiny  garden next to her apartment complex.

Jamie Renee Williams searches for bush beans in the tiny garden next to her apartment complex.

(Dania Maxwell/Los Angeles Times)

You do a lot of different things. How would you describe yourself?

To be completely honest, I have an aversion to labels. I am curious. I follow things that energize me. I like to try and learn new things. That’s my guiding philosophy. It has brought so many interesting things into my perspective. It’s probably because my childhood was very unusual.

How so?

I was born in the United States but my father was in the military so we traveled a lot. I lived in Japan from the ages of

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White House seeks limited coronavirus relief bill, promises further talks on broader stimulus

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Trump administration on Sunday called on Congress to pass a stripped-down coronavirus relief bill using leftover funds from an expired small-business loan program, as negotiations on a broader package ran into resistance.

The administration proposal, which Democrats dismissed as inadequate, was the latest twist in on-again, off-again talks to try to secure more stimulus, as the economy struggles to recover from coronavirus-related shutdowns that threw millions of Americans out of work.

In a letter to lawmakers, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and White House Chief of State Mark Meadows said they would continue to talk to Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer and House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi to try to reach agreement on a comprehensive bill.

But they said Congress should “immediately vote” on legislation to enable the use of the unused Paycheck Protection Program funds, which total around $130 billion.

“The all or nothing approach is an unacceptable response to the American people,” they wrote.

A spokesman for Pelosi, the lead Democratic negotiator, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Representative Nita Lowey, the Democratic chairwoman of the House Appropriations Committee, rejected the administration’s offer in a statement later on Sunday as “woefully inadequate.”

“We can only reopen our economy and set the foundation for a strong recovery if we support state and local governments on the frontline of this crisis,” Lowey said in a statement.

White House spokesman Brian Morgenstern told reporters the unused funds would be used to reopen the Payroll Protection Program, which expired earlier this year, to “allow businesses to continue to use it to keep their employees employed.”

President Donald Trump on Friday offered a $1.8 trillion coronavirus relief package in talks with Pelosi after urging his team on Twitter to “go big” – moving closer to Pelosi’s $2.2 trillion proposal. That came days after Trump abruptly called off negotiations until after the Nov. 3 election in which he is seeking re-election.

Trump’s reversal and higher offer drew criticism from Senate Republicans, some of whom are uneasy about the national debt and whether a deal would cost Republicans votes next month.

Federal Reserve officials have urged Congress to be aggressive. The head of the Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank said the recovery had “flattened out,” indicating the need for further stimulus.

“A lot of people are suffering. A lot of small businesses are suffering,” Minneapolis Fed chief Neel Kashkari said on CBS’ “Face the Nation” on Sunday.

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said on CNN’s “State of the Union” that Republicans would eventually come around.

“I think if an agreement can be reached, they will go along with it,” he said, adding there would be “further efforts of negotiation” on a package this week.

Reporting by Valerie Volcovici; Additional reporting by Patricia Zengerle; Editing by Bill Berkrot, Tim Ahmann and Peter Cooney

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Nancy Pelosi merely panned the White House’s $1.8 trillion relief offer, but Republicans revolted against it.

Senate Republicans revolted over the contours of a $1.8 trillion relief proposal that is the Trump administration’s latest and largest offer to House Democrats, further jeopardizing already dim prospects for an agreement on a broad stimulus bill before Election Day.

Even as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi insisted that the offer remained inadequate, many Republican senators lashed into the administration’s approach to the revived negotiations during a conference call on Saturday morning between close to half of the chamber’s Republicans and top administration officials.

The $1.8 trillion proposal that Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, put forward on Friday was the administration’s biggest offer since bipartisan negotiations began in late summer. The proposal came just days after President Trump abruptly ended negotiations and then, facing a backlash, reversed course and began urgently seeking to secure Democratic support for a deal.

The stark divisions between most Senate Republicans and the White House undercut the potential for an agreement before the election on Nov. 3, even as the country’s economic recovery continues to falter and tens of thousands of Americans, businesses and schools struggle to weather the pandemic without federal relief.

The Republican criticism on Saturday was so severe that Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, at one point told the senators on the conference call that he would relay their concerns to Mr. Trump, but that then “you all will have to come to my funeral.” (Mr. Mnuchin concurred.)

Details of the call were described in some manner by seven people briefed on the discussion, who all insisted on anonymity to disclose details of a private conversation.

Most of the senators who spoke on the call signaled an openness to continuing negotiations. However, there was widespread dissatisfaction with how expensive the administration’s offer had become, as well as with the perception that Mr. Mnuchin, in talks with Ms. Pelosi, was relying far more on the Democrats’ proposed $2.2 trillion plan as a baseline than the two more limited proposals put forward by Senate Republicans.

“There’s no appetite right now to spend the White House number or the House number,” Senator Lamar Alexander of Tennessee said on the call, reflecting longstanding concerns among senators eager to protect their credentials as fiscal hawks and stave off primary challengers in the next election cycle.

Senator Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee warned that accepting a bill with Ms. Pelosi’s support would amount to a “death knell” for Republican ambitions to retain their majority in the Senate and would “deflate” the party’s base.

Ms. Pelosi, for her part, informed Democratic lawmakers on Saturday that she found elements of Mr. Mnuchin’s proposal to be inadequate, writing in a letter that “this proposal amounted to one step forward, two steps back.”

“When the president talks about wanting a bigger relief package, his proposal appears to mean that he wants more money at his discretion to grant or withhold,” Ms. Pelosi wrote, adding “at this point, we still have disagreement on many priorities.” She ticked off a number of unresolved

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White House pushes for limited coronavirus relief bill as broader effort meets resistance

FILE PHOTO: U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin takes questions from news reporters with White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows following a series of meetings on efforts to pass new coronavirus aid legislation on Capitol Hill in Washington, U.S., July 28, 2020. REUTERS/Tom Brenner/File Photo

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin and White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on Sunday called on Congress to pass a coronavirus relief bill using leftover funds from the small business loan program as negotiations on a more comprehensive package face resistance.

Their proposal was the latest twist in the on-again, off-again talks to try to secure more stimulus for the economy.

In a letter to House and Senate members, Mnuchin and Meadows said the White House would continue to talk to Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, but that Congress should “immediately vote on a bill” that would enable the use of unused Paycheck Protection Program funds.

“The all or nothing approach is an unacceptable response to the American people,” they wrote.

President Donald Trump on Friday offered a $1.8 trillion coronavirus relief package in talks with Pelosi after urging his team on Twitter to “go big” – moving closer to Pelosi’s $2.2 trillion proposal. That came after Trump earlier last week said he was calling off negotiations until after the Nov. 3 election.

Trump’s reversal and higher offer drew criticism from at least 20 Senate Republicans, who said they were concerned a deal would cost Republicans support in the upcoming elections.

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday that he thought Senate Republicans would eventually come around.

“I think if an agreement can be reached, they will go along with it,” he said, adding that there will be “further efforts of negotiation” on a package this week.

Reporting by Valerie Volcovici; Editing by Bill Berkrot

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Senate Republicans Denounce White House’s Offer for Coronavirus Relief

Senator Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee, a Republican, warned that accepting a bill with Ms. Pelosi’s support would amount to a “death knell” for the party’s ambitions to retain its majority in the Senate and would “deflate” the Republican base, reflecting longstanding concerns among senators eager to protect their credentials as fiscal hawks and stave off primary challengers in the next election cycle.

Senator John Barrasso, Republican of Wyoming, declared that accepting a Democratic push to expand elements of the Affordable Care Act would be “an enormous betrayal” of Republican voters. Republicans have also voiced concerns that the health care provisions Democrats have pressed for could result in the use of federal funds for abortions, a characterization Democrats dispute.

“I don’t get it,” Senator Rick Scott, Republican of Florida, said of the administration’s efforts to reach a sweeping bipartisan deal with House Democrats, echoing the sentiments of multiple senators.

Ms. Pelosi, for her part, informed Democratic lawmakers that she found elements of Mr. Mnuchin’s proposal to be inadequate, writing in a letter on Saturday that “this proposal amounted to one step forward, two steps back.” After scaling down House Democrats’ original $3.4 trillion proposal to $2.2 trillion, she has been unwilling to accept much less than that.

“When the president talks about wanting a bigger relief package, his proposal appears to mean that he wants more money at his discretion to grant or withhold,” Ms. Pelosi wrote, adding “at this point, we still have disagreement on many priorities.” She ticked off a number of unresolved issues, including what she said was insufficient funding for unemployment benefits, child care, and state and local governments, and “reckless” liability protections that Republicans have insisted are a priority.

She said she was waiting for specific language from the administration about several provisions, including a national strategy for testing and tracing to contain the spread of the virus. It remained unclear whether she and Mr. Mnuchin would speak over the weekend.

Moderate Republicans, particularly those who are facing tough re-election races, are among the few senators who have voiced support for a bipartisan coronavirus deal and expressed few reservations about the pice tag. A handful of those senators, on a private call with Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, pushed for action on a bipartisan deal, particularly after Mr. Trump briefly withdrew negotiators from talks and gave Democrats political cover for failure to reach an agreement.

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Pelosi says White House proposal on COVID-19 relief is “one step forward, two steps back”

Speaker Nancy Pelosi signaled that there has been limited progress in negotiations with the White House over a coronavirus relief package, saying in a letter to her Democratic colleagues that a proposal presented by the Trump administration on Friday amounted to “one step forward, two steps back.”

“When the president talks about wanting a bigger relief package, his proposal appears to mean that he wants more money at his discretion to grant or withhold, rather than agreeing on language prescribing how we honor our workers, crush the virus and put money in the pockets of workers,” Pelosi wrote. “At this point, we still have disagreement on many priorities, and Democrats are awaiting language from the Administration on several provisions as the negotiations on the overall funding amount continue.”

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said Friday that President Trump had “approved” a “revised” coronavirus relief package, although he did not offer specifics. 

Earlier, on Tuesday, Mr. Trump slammed the door shut on a deal before the election, but then appeared to change his mind, first calling on the House to pass standalone relief bills and then indicating that he would support a large relief package. In a tweet on Friday morning, the president said, “Covid Relief Negotiations are moving along. Go Big!”

In her letter to colleagues on Saturday, Pelosi said the plan produced by the administration does not include “a strategic plan to crush the virus.” She compared it to the HEROES Act which the House passed last month, which provides a national regimen on testing and tracing.

The $2.4 trillion relief bill would also restore a popular benefit providing an additional $600 per week on top of unemployment benefits, deliver another round of direct payments and provide funding for schools and state and local jurisdiction. The legislation was a slimmed-down version of a $3.4 trillion bill the House initially passed in May.

“At this point, the Trump proposal is insufficient in meeting families’ needs, in stark contrast to the Heroes Act, which secured tens of billions for direct relief and refundable credits,” Pelosi said in her letter. She said the Trump administration proposal would differ from the HEROES Act by eliminating the earned income tax credit, child tax credit and child dependent care tax credit. The Democratic proposal would also include $57 billion for child care, while the White House plan only offers $25 billion.

Pelosi also slammed the administration for including a tax benefit that she said would benefit the wealthy, and offering $200 billion less than the Democratic proposal in unemployment benefits.

Nonetheless, Pelosi indicated she would like negotiations to continue.

“Despite these unaddressed concerns, I remain hopeful that yesterday’s developments will move us closer to an agreement on a relief package that addresses the health and economic crisis facing America’s families,” Pelosi said.

However, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has cast doubt on a potential deal, saying Friday he believed “the situation is kind of murky.”

“I’d like to see us rise above that like

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Pelosi, Mnuchin speak about relief bill

U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin speaks during a news conference to announce the Trump administration’s restoration of sanctions on Iran, at the U.S. State Department in Washington, September 21, 2020.

Patrick Semansky | Pool | Reuters

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin spoke about a broad coronavirus stimulus plan Thursday, capping another day of jumbled efforts in Washington to inject more aid into a floundering economy. 

Pelosi and Mnuchin had a 40-minute afternoon phone conversation about “whether there is any prospect of an imminent agreement on a comprehensive bill,” the speaker’s spokesman Drew Hammill said in a tweet.

Hammill said Mnuchin “made clear” Trump had interest in finding agreement on a comprehensive relief package — generally considered one that would address a range of issues including jobless benefits, direct payments, state and local government relief, and aid to airlines to cover payrolls. 

Pelosi pointed out comments from White House communications director Alyssa Farah, who on Thursday afternoon cast doubts on Trump’s desire to craft broad legislation. Farah told reporters the White House wants to address stimulus checks, small business loans and an “airline bailout,” but not as “part of a larger package.” 

The speaker would take Mnuchin’s word that Trump wants a broad proposal, Hammill added. 

“The Speaker trusts that the Secretary speaks for the President,” he wrote. 

Later Thursday, Farah told reporters “we’re open to going with something bigger.” But “we’re not going to operate from the $2.2 trillion that the speaker laid out,” she said. 

The developments Thursday afternoon continue a confusing week of back-and-forth between the Trump administration and Pelosi as the sides make a last-ditch push to send more aid to Americans before the 2020 election. Barring a quick resolution, it appears doubtful Congress can pass another relief bill before Nov. 3 even as more signs of a faltering economic recovery emerge.

Early in the week, Pelosi and Mnuchin had conversations about a fifth pandemic aid package that Congress has struggled to craft for months. As the White House and Democrats tried to find common ground between their $1.6 trillion and $2.2 trillion offers, respectively, Trump on Tuesday ordered his administration to call off stimulus talks until after the election.

He quickly reversed course that night. The president pushed for piecemeal bills to send direct payments to Americans and relief to airlines. Trump reiterated his call for stand-alone bills Thursday.

After Pelosi opened the door to a separate bill only to send money to airlines to prevent tens of thousands of furloughs, she shut it on Thursday. She then suggested talks about a comprehensive plan could move forward. 

“We’re at the table. We want to continue the conversation. We’ve made some progress, we’re exchanging language,” the speaker told reporters. 

The frenetic discussions have left even congressional leaders perplexed. 

“I think we’re still talking and trying to see if we can narrow our differences,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Thursday in Kentucky. “And you know, the discussion from day to day can be

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House Approves $2.2 Trillion Coronavirus Relief Bill

The House approved a $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill on Thursday night as Democrats worked to push Republicans for a bipartisan deal ahead of the election.



Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi are posing for a picture: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), speaks next to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY), during a news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C., August 7, 2020.


© Jonathan Ernst/Reuters
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), speaks next to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY), during a news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C., August 7, 2020.

The Democrat-controlled House passed the measure without any GOP votes ahead of representatives’ last day in Washington on Friday, when many lawmakers will return home to campaign before the November 3 election.

About 20 Democrats voted against the bill, with some pressing Pelosi to compromise with Republicans on a smaller package than the Democrats have called for. 

Friday marks the sixth straight day that Nancy Pelosi and Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin have met to try to hammer out a deal after months of political gridlock between the two parties. Pelosi and other top Democrats think a deal can be reached on Friday and would keep lawmakers in Washington over the weekend if a deal is within reach.

“We’ll see where we go from there tonight, but I’ve spoken to him a number of times already,” Pelosi told reporters, according to Politico. “Even if we came to some agreement, nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to — it’s the language.”

Lawmakers — and Americans — are frustrated after months of fruitless negotiation. Many lawmakers worry their constituents will hold the lack of progress against them for failing to provide help to tens of millions of Americans who remain jobless as many of the first round of relief measures have long since expired, including an extra unemployment boost and eviction protections. 

Two dozen moderate Democrats, many of whom come from battleground states, reached out to Pelosi on Thursday begging her to agree to the White House’s latest offer, which would provide roughly $1.6 trillion in health and economic aid, Politico reported.

Representative Cindy Axne (D., Iowa), one of the two dozen, argued that Thursday’s vote did nothing to push forward a bipartisan effort.

“This is going nowhere, we know it’s going nowhere. This is just a vote to make people feel good,” Axne told Politico. “I want to help people, and that means sitting at the table and getting the damn deal done.”

Representtive Ben McAdams (D., Utah), voted no and called on Pelosi to reach a deal with Mnuchin ahead of the House’s slated departure this weekend. 

“Republicans have put forward a serious offer and I think leadership should stay at the table and get this across the finish line,” McAdams told Politico. “It’s a serious offer and a good faith offer, and it feels like we are close.”

Yet Pelosi has still pushed back on accepting a deal with Mnuchin, saying an adequate deal will not be reached “if we take the path of least resistance, and just do whatever they put forth. That’s doing their bill, that’s not doing the people’s worth.”

She chose to instead hold

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House passes Democratic pandemic relief measure

WASHINGTON — The House of Representatives passed a $2.2 trillion Covid-19 relief bill Thursday night as negotiations between the administration and Democrats have failed to yield a bipartisan deal and the time to pass new relief measures ahead of November’s election ticks away.

The measure passed 214-207. No Republicans supported it and 18 Democrats voted against it. Nearly all of the Democrats who voted against the bill are locked in close re-election races.

“Today’s package is another partisan exercise that will never become law,” Rep. Abigail Spanberger, D-Va., said in a statement about why she voted against it. “My focus remains on working with Democrats and Republicans to get relief to my district immediately, and partisan gamesmanship will not do it.”

The legislation, known as Heroes 2.0, is a scaled down version from the Heroes Act, which the House passed in May.

The vote occurred as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin continue to discuss a bipartisan agreement.

Late Thursday, Pelosi told reporters in the Capitol that she spoke to Mnuchin multiple times Thursday but that there was no deal yet.

Asked if one was possible, she said, “I don’t know. It just depends.”

She said that the details matter just as much as how many dollars are being spent, which is an indication that they could be further along in negotiations than they are letting on.

“Even if we came to some agreement, nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to. It’s the language,” she said.

According to two sources briefed on the negotiations earlier Thursday, Mnuchin has offered Pelosi a total spending level of $1.62 trillion, up from the $1.5 trillion he had previously suggested.

Inching closer to Pelosi’s demands, Mnuchin agreed to $250 billion more spending for state and local efforts — something President Donald Trump has previously objected to — as well as $150 billion more for the nation’s schools, $75 billion more for testing and tracing efforts, $60 billion for rent and mortgage assistance and $15 billion in food assistance. The details of the offer were first reported by Roll Call.

But on many issues, that offer was still short of what Democrats are demanding.

Mnuchin has also not agreed to re-upping the $600 per week in federal unemployment insurance, offering a level of $400 per week instead, creating a major sticking point for any deal.

“That’s why we not only have a dollars debate,” Pelosi said earlier Thursday, “we have a values debate. Still, I’m optimistic.”

Mnuchin’s proposals are largely similar to those made by the Problem Solvers caucus, a bipartisan congressional group. Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, D-N.Y., praised the move, saying, “to the extent Secretary Mnuchin has indicated that he will use the Problem Solvers proposal as a basis for any counteroffer actually brings us much closer to an agreement than we’ve ever been.

Even if a deal is reached between Pelosi and Mnuchin, it’s unclear what Senate Republicans would do with a bill or how it would

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House passes Democratic pandemic relief measure as bipartisan talks continue

WASHINGTON — The House of Representatives passed a $2.2 trillion Covid-19 relief bill Thursday night as negotiations between the administration and Democrats have failed to yield a bipartisan deal and the time to pass new relief measures ahead of November’s election ticks away.

The measure passed 214-207. No Republicans supported it and 18 Democrats voted against it. Nearly all of the Democrats who voted against the bill are locked in close re-election races.

“Today’s package is another partisan exercise that will never become law,” Rep. Abigail Spanberger, D-Va., said in a statement about why she voted against it. “My focus remains on working with Democrats and Republicans to get relief to my district immediately, and partisan gamesmanship will not do it.”

The legislation, known as Heroes 2.0, is a scaled down version from the Heroes Act, which the House passed in May.

The vote occurred as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin continue to discuss a bipartisan agreement.

Late Thursday, Pelosi told reporters in the Capitol that she spoke to Mnuchin multiple times Thursday but that there was no deal yet.

Asked if one was possible, she said, “I don’t know. It just depends.”

She said that the details matter just as much as how many dollars are being spent, which is an indication that they could be further along in negotiations than they are letting on.

“Even if we came to some agreement, nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to. It’s the language,” she said.

According to two sources briefed on the negotiations earlier Thursday, Mnuchin has offered Pelosi a total spending level of $1.62 trillion, up from the $1.5 trillion he had previously suggested.

Inching closer to Pelosi’s demands, Mnuchin agreed to $250 billion more spending for state and local efforts — something President Donald Trump has previously objected to — as well as $150 billion more for the nation’s schools, $75 billion more for testing and tracing efforts, $60 billion for rent and mortgage assistance and $15 billion in food assistance. The details of the offer were first reported by Roll Call.

But on many issues, that offer was still short of what Democrats are demanding.

Mnuchin has also not agreed to re-upping the $600 per week in federal unemployment insurance, offering a level of $400 per week instead, creating a major sticking point for any deal.

“That’s why we not only have a dollars debate,” Pelosi said earlier Thursday, “we have a values debate. Still, I’m optimistic.”

Mnuchin’s proposals are largely similar to those made by the Problem Solvers caucus, a bipartisan congressional group. Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, D-N.Y., praised the move, saying, “to the extent Secretary Mnuchin has indicated that he will use the Problem Solvers proposal as a basis for any counteroffer actually brings us much closer to an agreement than we’ve ever been.

Even if a deal is reached between Pelosi and Mnuchin, it’s unclear what Senate Republicans would do with a bill or how it would be received

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